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1.3.1 beta notes

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Comments

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    edited February 2012 Posts: 5,386

    I don't mind forced change because it often presents a new challenge or shifts your focus. I was sad about having to remove the .codea export, but it has really focused us on open sourcing the engine.

    But I really meant forced change due to design decisions — not due to policy decisions. Like your example with the colours. If a designer of a product I liked decided to force a design change I would generally go along with it because I like to use things as the designer intended.

    I really hate having to customize other people's products — if their products require customization then I feel like it is a failure of the designer. Or the designed experience is not one that suits me and I should create my own product or choose a different one.

    I really appreciate getting the designer's idea of how the experience should be. That is, getting a product and having the product change me, rather than me having to change the product to suit.

    Edit: A lot of people like customization. I have no problem with people wanting to customize things and even offering some of them in Codea, but it's just not for me.

  • BortelsBortels Mod
    Posts: 1,557

    Hmm, dunno - I think when you get to the heart of it, Coding is all about customization. It's the ultimate way to say "I want things this way - here are the exact instructions to make it so".

    You want to let them customize - let them set the background for the project manager page with a project. You want it to be awesome, make it active - there's a project running underneath the project manager page. :-)

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,386

    Coding happens in the code editor though, not on the project browser. I agree about having a project running in the background, though, that would be cool :)

    I'd argue that coding is all about creation, not customization.

  • Posts: 2,161

    One part of my website has the tag-line (emphasis added):

    Collected here are a load of hints, hacks, and howtos that I have used at some point to get my computers to behave the way I want them to (as opposed to me behaving the way they want me to).

    So I'm with Bortels on this one.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    edited February 2012 Posts: 5,386

    @Andrew — I'm not against other people wanting to customise. It's a philosophical difference.

    I find that well designed software, software that causes me to change or adapt my behaviour, generally makes me more efficient than before. Spending time hacking or changing things always detracts me from getting things done.

    That said, there's a lot of value in hacking and changing things into what you want them to be. I've been pleasantly surprised to see how you, @Bortels, @Fred, @ruilov, @Mark and others have managed to make Codea do things I never expected it to do.

  • Posts: 447

    Have you watched the TED talk about "the paradox of choice"? In short, choice can be bad too. The act of choosing is stressful for a lot of people. Sounds like that's where Simeon stands more or less.

    I generally agree that I'd rather have the developer spend time thinking about the right UI rather than spend time giving me options, and then make me think about which one to choose. I probably won't, and will end up being using the tool inefficiently.

    But the "right UI" doesn't exist in every case. For example if you forced me to start looking at a white background again, I'd stop using Codea. (ok, maybe not...)

  • Posts: 2,161

    The key bit of what Simeon sais is: "well designed". I'm pessimistic - I've not come across much that is well-designed, and the next best is flexibility.

  • Posts: 2,161

    @Mark any chance of posting the codea file for your plane crazy project for us beta users who can still import?

  • Posts: 2,161

    I want that autosave! I've had three crashes today for no apparent reason.

  • Posts: 2,161

    And three more in rapid succession. @Simeon - anything useful from the bug reports?

  • Posts: 2,161

    Just tried turning off and on again but no dice. Aaargh.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,386

    I wonder if it's the autocomplete builder thread (the thing that completes self.*).

    TestFlight is only reporting 4 crashes though — none from you. That's very odd, did it crash from the code editor, viewer, or browser?

  • Posts: 1,255

    You know, I forgot I could still do that! Here you go:

    http://devilstower.posterous.com/plane-crazy-020

  • Posts: 1,255

    I had one crash today from the editor. Happened while cut & pasting snippets between tabs.

  • Posts: 2,161

    Code editor, all of them.

    I have one big file in there (and lots of medium-sized ones) which is an image. But it was fine earlier today and now I can't do anything with that project. I'll try a smaller project ...

  • Posts: 2,161

    Other projects are fine, just this one.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,386

    So the project crashes on load? Or soon after you open it (within 1 to 5 seconds)?

  • BortelsBortels Mod
    Posts: 1,557

    @Simeon said (ha!) " I've been pleasantly surprised to see how you, @Bortels, @Fred, @ruilov, @Mark and others have managed to make Codea do things I never expected it to do."

    I take it as a source of pride and a job well done when I can make a system do something that surprises the people who made it. If a system is complex enough that it can surprise it's creator, it's probably complex enough to do other exciting things.

    man, I want sockets. yeah, I know. Just have to say it once and a while. (Sadly, I don't even want them for "ha ha, I'll import code". I just want to communicate with a webserver to post turns and results for turn-based games. Have you played Hero Academy? Highly recommended, and there's NOTHING there that couldn't have been implemented in Codea...)

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,386

    @Bortels I'd like to add synchronous / asynchronous http request library. I don't believe Apple will mind — as our intention is not to use it for code sharing.

    One of the reasons I haven't put this stuff in is because I keep adding new features and fixing bugs that I would like to guarantee get out to all Codea users in the next update. As soon as I add http requests an element of risk comes into it and I keep putting it off until a subsequent update just in case it gets rejected and delays the other features and fixes.

    Hero Academy looks really cool - thanks for letting me know about it.

  • BortelsBortels Mod
    Posts: 1,557

    Yes, I understand about the risk imposed with networking of any sort re. Apple approvals - If I was in your shoes, I'd make the same decision and work on high-value-but-not-"dangerous" features first, "dangerous" meaning "might possible delay release".

    A simple http GET would be completely sufficient, for my purposes at least. (POST would be dandy too, but GET gets me there fine. If you wanted to get fancy, GET/POST/PUT/DELETE would give you a full RESTful interface, which would be handy for a lot of business purposes...)

    We've been playing the heck out of Hero Academy at work. It's a really good example of the gameplay mode I'm interested in, as well, kinda - rather than back-and-forth for 2 players, I want to do a "hosted" version - everyone has a game map, enters their moves, submits turns - and at a given time, the host processes all turns simultaneously, and players can see results. It's a direct translation of how really old "Play by Mail" games were run. I like those kind of games because they can be pretty complex - but since you only need to put in your time when you can, you can work it around your real world schedule. If I'm too busy to play my Hero Academy turns, the game just sits until I can play (and since you can have 20 games at once, there's usually turns ready if you have a few opponents...)

  • BortelsBortels Mod
    Posts: 1,557

    Just a throwaway suggestion - @Mark suggested an alpha blend between the code and the output window, which I think sounds totally cool, and it made me think more about the Project selector background.

    In OS X, you can take a Quartz Composer project, and run it as an active desktop background. It's kinda cool (but I find it distracting). That's the kind of idea in my head when I suggest the following...

    I've already suggested you could have a special project that runs as the background, ie. makes the background active. That's fun, but I have an even better idea.

    It would be extra cool if instead of (or as an option instead of a static image) if the 3 or 4 project icons on the screen actually ran in the icon windows - ie. active icons. You could either just scale the screen down, or have a drawIcon() analog to draw() that ran when the project was showing in the Project screen. (if we had a mouse, I'd suggest the one you hover over executes, but no mouse... maybe a "cover flow mode" where instead of squares, it would have the middle one selected and running (and displaying the description), and you could scroll left and right thru static images)

    Yeah. Coverflow. Apple would eat it up (and I'll bet it's a built-in) :-)

    This is all totally eye-candy, of course - totally unnecessary. But it would be SWEET.

  • BortelsBortels Mod
    Posts: 1,557

    I'm excited about the coverflow idea. dunno why. :-)

    http://bestmacs.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/coverflow.jpg

    Like that, but the middle cover is the app executing - tap it and it zooms full screen. The tilted side images could be static.

    mmm - and consider, perhaps, coming up in "running" mode by default, or perhaps having a flag (some sort of "-- PRAGMA" thing) that suggests preferred mode - so you'd come up in code mode until you were "done", then switch it to come up in run mode.)

    It's SO EASY to suggest stuff I don't have to write myself. :-)

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,386

    Agreed. That would be awesome. I'd like to experiment with it at some point. I expect it would kill iPad 1. I'm not sure how heavy-weight OpenGL contexts are any more on iOS, they might have improved by now.

  • BortelsBortels Mod
    Posts: 1,557

    I could have sworn at some point there were coverflow things on the ipad - but maybe it was the mac and my brain is just playing tricks on me. :-)

    (dig dig dig google dig)

    it seems it was on the iphone, got removed for the ipad. Reasons suggested were "legal issues", and "too pixelated on the big screen".

  • Posts: 2,161

    @Simeon Back on the crashes. What happens is this: I load my project, then I can browse back and forth between tabs, scroll up and down at will. Then I go to the one I'm working on and start to edit it. I can type in a little bit, I can even try to run the code (which throws an error), but after not very long at all the app crashes. What's more, even if I do a small edit and run the code before it crashes, it takes me back to the state where I started.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,386

    Is this a specific project? Would you mind sending me the .codea package so I can run it through the debugger?

  • Posts: 2,161

    Sent.

    The tab that I'm working on is Shapes, specifically in the function Shape.Globe at line 512 (maybe that's significant!).

    I just duplicated the project, thinking maybe there was some obscure file system issue and that that might clean it up, and it crashed even sooner - hadn't even edited anything.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,386

    Thank you, @Andrew, will take a look shortly.

    Note that the beta version of Codea doesn't remove deleted tabs from the file system. I hope it's not some stray file causing issues.

  • Posts: 2,161

    Presumably, these wouldn't be included in the .codea file - but I can imagine that the Duplicate method simple cp -r Old/ New/s so might preserve these - in which case I could load in the .codea file if I send it to myself.

  • Posts: 2,161

    And I'm back in!!!!! You're a genius, Simeon.

    I'll keep the old version for when I'm next hooked up to my PC and I can see what the rogue files were. Now, I've got a hole over Antarctica to plug.

  • Posts: 2,161

    And I've just "tweeted" the result.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,386

    So it was the stray files? It's good to know it wasn't a more fundamental bug, but hopefully I can still fix whatever it was that was causing it.

    Just saw your result. It looks great! I guess you got texture mapping working once more?

    Is it missing the poles? (Your question on Twitter.)

  • Posts: 2,161

    It is missing antarctica - but that's because the image I started with didn't go all the way north or south (I think, and you've no idea how hard it is to find a free globe map that is parametrised by longitude and lattitude). But that's not what's wrong with it.

    I'm guessing the crashes were due to stray files, but I'll have to wait until this evening (when I can hook it up to my laptop) to be sure.

  • Posts: 2,161

    @Simeon can you post a .codea file of your "Codea in Codea"?

  • Posts: 2,161

    This is totally bizarre. According to Linux, the two directories are identical. All files the same, all permissions the same, no extra files. Yet one crashes and the other doesn't.

  • BortelsBortels Mod
    edited February 2012 Posts: 1,557

    +1 on @Simeon posting that Codea thing he tweeted about. It is officially nifty.

    EDIT: Doh. I see you made a thread for it. Rock On.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,386

    @Andrew no hidden files?

    Sorry for the lateness on this, here's the "Codea in Codea" project as a bundle.

    http://twolivesleft.com/Codea/Projects/InstantGratification.codea

  • BortelsBortels Mod
    Posts: 1,557

    Bug (?): I accidentally hit the "Community and Help" icon. On that page, there is a "back" button in the upper left that does nothing. I probably hit that thing 15 times before I saw the "close" button in the upper right.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,386

    The back button is actually for going back in the browser. I know, a bit confusing.

  • Posts: 2,161

    Simeon, nope - no hidden files. Did ls -A and diff -rq to test everything.

    I've now had a crash on the new (imported) project as well.

  • Posts: 1,255

    Having a new issue with the latest release. Every time I hit a program bug and tap the arrow, instead of taking me back to my code, it's bouncing me out to the project selector.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    edited February 2012 Posts: 5,386

    Which arrow, the back arrow?

    Edit: Ah! Found it, sorry about this. Will fix it.

  • BortelsBortels Mod
    edited February 2012 Posts: 1,557
    1. if we paste what we copy - will it make tabs? (I guess I could try, huh? - just saw the email, daughter has the ipad)

    2. Tell me more about this background "Process". It sounds... interesting. I can think of a few things it might be.

    Sorry I've been absent - had a tooth pulled, and I've been kinda sleeping it off.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,386

    No problem @Bortels.

    1. It just copies all your tabs to the clipboard. Pasting the data does not make tabs — yet. I want to start introducing these features slowly, and publicly. Technically they do not violate the agreement, but I don't want to push things too far in one update.

    2. Sorry, it's nothing interesting. It's just the name of the new background image available in this version, rounding out the images to 16 in total.

  • BortelsBortels Mod
    Posts: 1,557
    1. Awww... I was all excited :-)

    I was hoping for:

    a) a hook into the "close app" system call (not sure what to do with that, but I'm sure there's something)

    b) The actual ability to run something in lua as one of the approved background processes (ie. something streaming audio or such). Strikes me as semi-risky, but interesting insomuch as work has been going into sound generation, or

    c) The ability to run a lua script as an active, live background to the project selector.

    any would be interesting, so say the least.

    I understand the delay in "tab parsing". baby steps.

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