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Shade 1.0 (8)

245

Comments

  • JohnJohn Admin Mod
    Posts: 629
    @dave1707 can you zip up and attach one of those faulty Shades so I can have a look at it?
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 398

    Back after a long time off the forum, but great to be beta-testing Shade.. amazing work guys!

    Knocked up a quick Snow Shader (and posted it on Twitter here:

    )

    Really it just uses the G (Y-up) component of the WorldNormal, splits it to isolate it as a mask, clips where the edge starts using the Step node and then inverts it. Quite easy to add noise and other stuff to add more detail. It just really puts snow on parts of the model facing upwards really.

    Not much docs, but have to rely on experience of other Shader dev tools (e.g. Maya) which I guess via trial and error makes it quite fun in a sort of seat of your pants way kinda way!

    Would be great to have all attribute numeric fields on sliders, as its a pain to type them in. The only small usability gripe so far. Will report back with other thoughts.

    Great work guys!

  • dave1707dave1707 Mod
    Posts: 8,566

    @John The Shades that I have problems with aren’t that big, maybe 2 or 3 nodes. I do a lot of pasting and deleting of nodes just to see what they do. I’ll try saving one the next time it happens and email it to myself just to see if the error remains. If it does I’ll send it off to you.

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,807
    @andymac3d - suggest when a node is selected a slider opens for adjustment at the bottom of the screen or, if you have seen Affinity Designer, a rotating dial at the bottom of the screen.
    My apologies if this is already in use or planned.
  • Posts: 398
    I agree @Bri_G - it’s things like this that make a huge difference when experimenting. Love the drag and drop/connections stuff. Indeed, Lots of other packages (I’m looking at you Autodesk!) can learn a lot from how to create a proper easy to use connections system such as this ie. the swizzle!
  • JohnJohn Admin Mod
    Posts: 629

    @andymac3d Nice snow shader :). We will be adding a slider node that you can use to easily tweak value as well as making any other input a slider if it makes sense (i.e. there are a finite range of values).
    @Bri_G that's an interesting idea about having the slider always visible on the bottom of the screen.

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,807
    @john - found it interesting in AD and AP, you could also add a text input there for more precise control or other controls used in that node. A small heading on top of the control box describing the nodes functionality.

    Also, if a run mode is involved, the control box could disappear.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 398

    Here’s a few potential bugs and feature requests, these may be covered elsewhere and/or I’m talking nonsense

    Bug: Plane mode (for Shader display) appears to have the grid and plane coincident (at y=0) hence causing intersection errors as the Shader can’t resolve what’s in front of what (causing noisy polygons). You can use offset or switch it off I guess.

    Bug: Shaders sometimes appear not to give the same result after they’ve been saved and re-opened

    Bug: Can’t seem to get Opacity to work using any method (ie a straight value or via a connected texture). What’s the correct workflow for this? It could be me and how I understand opacity in this context.

    Feature Req: Duplicating shaders in the browser would be useful (you can copy, but no duplicate)

    Feature Req: Collapsing sub-networks into a single ‘function’ (with exposed input and outputs like a ‘black box’) that can be reused would be great, as well as helping with readability on larger networks. An Annotation feature would be good too.

  • dave1707dave1707 Mod
    Posts: 8,566
  • JohnJohn Admin Mod
    Posts: 629

    @dave1707 I've fixed that one now thanks. It turns out that Voronoi3D returns a Vector 3D. If you load up a shader that uses the old node after this is fixed it will most likely cause Shade to error out and will need to be remade.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,405

    @andymac3d that's odd, I get a duplicate option from the menu in the browser

  • Posts: 398

    @Simeon - Ah, I see. in the iCloud Browser you do, not in the default Shade Recents browser you don’t (which is the one I’ve tended to use)

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 398

    Another quick one I’ve knocked up - a Rain Shader.

    Really just a good example of shunting UV’s around to control the 3D noise. You can scale the noise by multiplying the UVs with a vector2d in x and y, and translate it by adding a vector2d in x and y. By driving the UV translate and Z component of the noise with ‘time’ you can do all sorts of effects like rain, streaky plasma or even a water ripple effect.

    All starting to make more sense the more I dive in..

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,807

    @andymac3d - Shade is reminiscent of LabView for designing automation packages - data capture and control. Used that years ago in the Labs and it was very powerful. The visual UI for construction makes it easier to understand at a glance.

    But, I am assuming that the examples shown so far are relatively simple. What does the UI look like when you have large complex Shades? and, is there any way to minimise sections that you have finished and are not actively working on.

    Also, is their a form of dependencies as in Codea/Lua where you can incoporate code not currently in the development environment?

  • Posts: 69
    Can I also be a beta tester for shade? I would really like to help!
  • Posts: 398

    @Bri_G - I think the general node based approach is really suitable for stuff like this where you’ve got a process tree with known atomic level building blocks, but can quickly become overwhelming on large networks. Abstracting complexity down to collapsed sub-nets is then the way to go. Some good examples in CGI land are Maya’s Hypergraph, Houdini, Nuke and (probably the ‘daddy’ of Shader dev tools) Allegorithmic Substance Designer - all have some great UI workflows for dealing with complexity and connection merging/splitting - but all are based on desktop apps (using the mouse and keyboard shortcuts). I think the guys are doing a great job in simplifying this approach for a touchscreen interface and a relatively small screen.

  • Posts: 1,807

    @andymac3d - Wow quite a few examples of other packages there, you obviously know your shaders.

    I think the point about big screens is important and it may be the time to test the water by compiling a package for the Mac or PC - Mac should be relatively easy using the same packages - I assume Xcode would be used.

  • AnatolyAnatoly Mod
    Posts: 889

    Oh cool! Something new. Is it like shaders !?

  • Posts: 1,807
    @TokOut - could you give us a bit more detail on what is cool. Just looked at the packages referred to by @andymac3d and they look more like powerfull serious development tools for 3D modelling including shaders. Very early days here, fingers crossed neat prototype out soon.
  • Posts: 398
    @Bri_G Certainly Substance Designer is incredibly powerful and steered towards pros. But, that doesn’t mean necessarily its easy to use and fast to develop things - that’s why I like the idea of Shade, and there’s nothing like it for tablets currently. The others are interesting to look at to see how others treat the whole Node-graph approach. Nuke isn’t a shader dev tool, but a Compositing package and has some neat ideas e.g. by ‘shaking’ a node you can detach it from all its connections in one go. I think those sorts of things are nice UX touches to make you work faster.
  • AnatolyAnatoly Mod
    Posts: 889

    @Bri_G I mean it’s cool that Codea didn’t stopped with craft. I thought like it’s the last big update. But I saw pictures in this topic... amazing. Can’t wait to try out.

  • AnatolyAnatoly Mod
    Posts: 889

    Okay I’d like to be tester

  • Posts: 2,020

    Hi @Simeon I'd love to be added to the beta for Shade

  • Posts: 112

    Man, I wish I had time to get involved with Codea again, just too busy. Anway's great job with your app guys keep up the good work!

  • dave1707dave1707 Mod
    Posts: 8,566

    @John I ran into another situation, but I can’t reproduce it because I don’t remember what I did. I was connecting nodes when I got a text error message in the print area about an error in draw. I couldn’t move, delete, or do anything else with the nodes because of the error. I would close the Shade and reopen it, but I would keep getting the error. The only thing I could do was delete the Shade and start over. But like I said, I didn’t remember what I was doing and I couldn’t see all the nodes that were on the screen, so I can’t give details. Because of the text error I couldn’t see all the nodes or correct the problem. I think text error messages should be a popup so the node error could be corrected instead of locking up the code.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,405
    @yojimbo2000 @GR00G0 I’ll add you. Thanks for joining!
  • JohnJohn Admin Mod
    Posts: 629

    @dave1707 There are still a few "crash" bugs like that. If you encounter any just send the zipped shade to me before you delete it.

  • Posts: 69
    Is there a way to use a shader created with shade in a craft project?
  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,405
    @GR00G0 that is the eventual plan, but not in the current beta
  • Posts: 2,020
    Had a crash on iPhone. Tapped new document on the Document Browser View Controller, tapped close on the About Shade modal web view, crashed with

    > Main:169: attempt to index a nil value (global 'editor')
    > stack traceback:
    > Main:169: in function 'touched'
  • Posts: 2,020
    @Simeon curious about how you're getting something apparently built in Codea to launch with the native Document Browser View Controller
  • Posts: 2,020
    Sorry about brevity of messages, am writing on iPhone
  • Posts: 1,807

    @John

    Is there any documentation for Shade - I'd like to read up on it so I can start using it when you launch the first prototype?

  • dave1707dave1707 Mod
    Posts: 8,566

    @Bri_G I don’t think there’s any documentation. You can long press on a node and one of the options that shows is Reference. When you select that, it says No Description Available. Hopefully in the future those will contain information saying what that node does. Right now it’s just play with it and see what happens. Maybe John will respond and say there’s documentation someplace. I’d like to see that also.

  • Posts: 2,043
    Will Shade be Universal like Codea 3.0?
  • dave1707dave1707 Mod
    Posts: 8,566

    @Bri_G Did you look at the Wiki link at the top of the forum. There’s a section in there called Shader ebooks. That’s not exactly for Shade, but it will give you information about shaders that might help understanding Shade.

  • Posts: 1,807
    @dave1707 - thanks for the link, I think that's the Ignatz intro. Good point I'll read it again. Kinda interested in the UI for Shade and if it will be easier to use than text coding as we currently use.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 398
    This one might help.. examples in Processing (I think), but the theory is pretty good for people who want a gentle intro into Shader development..

    https://thebookofshaders.com
  • JohnJohn Admin Mod
    Posts: 629

    @Bri_G @dave1707 if you press the ? button up the top right you can see the general documentation for the app. Some nodes have documentation and some do not right now (it's taking me a while to write stuff up for every single one) and I will be adding more with each beta until they are all done.
    I'm also working on a set of tutorials right now that will be hosted on the web and designed to be used side-by-side with shade.
    We will also be adding a set of example shaders that will be bundled with the app and show up in the documents folder for Shade so you can open them up and play around.
    @simeon is also working on an improved inline-documentation for the Node Library so you can simply tap on a node to see its documentation without having to add it to the graph.

  • dave1707dave1707 Mod
    Posts: 8,566

    @John I saw the ? and read thru the info there probably on the second day after I got Shade. It’s probably going to be awhile for you to complete the documentation, but getting Shade updated and stable is your priority and we all realize that.

    PS. Did you get the Shader I sent to you and is it giving you the error it was giving me. Just wondering if sending you a copy is useful for future problems.

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 398

    Here’s another Shade test.. an Ice Shader. A fairly cheap and nasty sub-surface hack using the distance node from each sampled point on the surface to cheat the apparent density of the material.

    Getting into this now!

  • Posts: 69
    @andymac3d In your last “Ice Rhino” example, do you have any additional settings? I trued to recreate your shader but only got a brigh glowing mesh.
  • Posts: 2,020

    Another bug report. Not sure to what extent you're planning on supporting iPhones, but currently all the popover views (documentation, shader errors and so on) display as fullscreen modals on iPhone, with no close button, so you have to force quit the app to proceed.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,405
    @yojimbo2000 many of those are fixed on iPhone in the next build. iPhone will be supported.
  • Posts: 398

    @GR00G0 - Yes indeed. You also need to set some of the attributes on the Shader. Diffuse = 0 0 0 , Emission Color = 80 136 230. I’d also turn Bloom off as well. This should then work!

    You can also make a Wax or Jade shader as well with this approach by changing the emission color.

  • AnatolyAnatoly Mod
    edited August 2018 Posts: 889

    @simeon I’d support to be beta for shade )

    I’ve installed TestFlight and have send my email to you using the inbox.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,405

    @TokOut I already invited you as soon as I got your message, you have to accept the invite from the email on your device to access the beta. I've sent the invite again, let me know if it doesn't go through!

  • AnatolyAnatoly Mod
    Posts: 889

    Oh. I found it. Joining. )

  • Posts: 1,807
    @Simeon - tried to resist the pull of Shade as I was pretty busy when you launched the beta. Pressure eased off and don't like looking on from outside. Any chance you could add me to the beta?
  • AnatolyAnatoly Mod
    Posts: 889

    @Simeon it took me 50 minutes to install shade. I’m slightly disappointed and done for today. Will start tests tomorrow.

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