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Shade 1.0 (8)

135

Comments

  • dave1707dave1707 Mod
    Posts: 8,387

    @TokOut Why did it take you 50 minutes. Did it take you that long to download it because it shouldn’t have taken any time after the download. I don’t remember when I loaded it, but it probably only took a few minutes for the download and it was ready to run after that.

  • JohnJohn Admin Mod
    edited August 2018 Posts: 616

    @dave1707 I've fixed the issue with node references almost always showing up as blank.

  • dave1707dave1707 Mod
    Posts: 8,387

    @John That sounds great. I think that will help a lot with learning/testing Shade.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,362

    @TokOut 50 minutes! Sorry for the large download size

    @Bri_G added you, using a gmail address I found for you, let me know if there's a different Apple ID you want to use.

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,708
    ,@Simeon - thanks for the access to beta Shade. My profile email address is up to date . Apple ID the same as before. Thanks again.
  • Posts: 1,708

    @TokOut - just installed Shade, took 5 minutes to download and install

    @John - like the iCloud integration. On the help some of the links lead to pages without exit options e.g. Surface. A bit frustrating having to reboot Shade.

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,708

    @John - tried using a planet texture on the Rhino with Rough, just playing, but the texture was not a applied - just had a solid colour. Then I used the enlarge button (top left) in the output window - it enlarged the window but I couldn’T Scroll the output window it scrolled the Shade master window behind it.

    Update - logged out of Shade, back in and loaded The Shade then was able to scroll both windows.

  • Posts: 398
    @Bri_G - I suspect the Rhino model doesn’t have any UV’s - so, the shader can’t wrap a texture around it (the others do)
  • AnatolyAnatoly Mod
    Posts: 889

    Maybe it was a problem with my internet connection. Well sorry for this accidental report.

  • Posts: 1,708
    @andymac3d - bit naive of me. I suppose the smoothed corner sphere has texture vertices and Shade will just cut oit the relevant parts. The more complex rhino will not.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,708

    @John - when I started Shade up after previous session shut down, the browse button was active and showing the last directory listing that I had used in the previous session. Could be useful sometimes but I would prefer default to be iCloud Shade directory.

    Could this be a result of closing down without saving previous shader?

  • Posts: 1,708

    @John - could we have the Shade Master window with an adjustable background colour as some of the windows are black on a black background. It would make it easier to pick out the feature windows.

  • JohnJohn Admin Mod
    Posts: 616

    @Bri_G when you say Shade Master window, I'm assuming you mean the one with the grid and feature windows are nodes then?

    The Rhino model is a high-res scan of a statue, so it doesn't have any UV's. We could display a message / warning for things without them so it's a bit more obvious.

  • AnatolyAnatoly Mod
    edited August 2018 Posts: 889

    Been playing around. Good as always. But I still do not get everything

  • Posts: 1,708

    @John - yeah, what I called Master window is the grid window and feature windows nodes. I’ll get used to the terminology eventually.

    Better than firing up a warning would be to generate an info window for models and textures - with say path, size, file type and include .mtl details with .obj details. That could help with picking out errors.

  • Posts: 1,708

    @TokOut - trying to duplicate your rugby ball demo above but don’t know how to switch to XY-XY mode on the node, defaults to X-X on the node - opened up the node but just the x to x connection inside. No distorted sphere with just X connection.

  • Posts: 1,708

    @John - just a suggestion, since I'm not keen on the close Shade button on the slide out panel I suggest a single drop down menu in the top right could be added. I knocked up an example just to show what I mean - single button when pressed drops down for info, undo, redo, and exit buttons - oops forgot background colour option or anything else we identify.

    menu.png 33.4K
  • Posts: 1,708

    @John - back again whilst playing I got an invite to post a shader error. See the attached Shade and error report.

  • Posts: 1,708

    @John - selected two image files for above but second didn’t load, here is the other. Ooooops too big to post, reduced it by 50% to post and worked.

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,708

    @John - sometimes when I have an object in the output window, after I move and resize with thumb and finger pinch etc - the windows freeze or lock into scaling mode. After playing around a little it sometimes comes back. Not sure if this is due to my Shade definition or the user interface on the design and output windows. Scaling the output window up and down usually works during this problem.

  • Posts: 1,708

    All, anyone any idea how we incorporate a lerp in Shade. @John mentioned it in his help pages but then dismissed it - does that mean build from first principles?

  • JohnJohn Admin Mod
    Posts: 616
    @Bri_G try the Mix node.
  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,362
    @Bri_G thanks for your suggestion about the menu! Something I’m thinking about as well. Next build has the buttons repositioned but I’m not sure yet what the final design will be.
  • Posts: 398

    Couple of small bugettes:

    • The Bloom option keeps on turning itself back on (even though I’ve turned it off) after i’ve saved and reloaded the Shader,

    • Shade appears to get the depth sorting wrong if you’ve got the floor-plane turned on and you use any Shader Blend mode other than ‘Disabled’. I.e. the model always appears behind the grid.

    Interestingly, you can duplicate the base Shader node and Shade will happily allow you to construct multiple shade networks in the same layout. However, there appears to be no way of reassigning any of the other Shaders to the ‘current’ model for testing. Maybe this is for future development?

  • Posts: 398

    Here’s another one I’ve quickly made.

    A basic x-ray shader that uses the relationship between the view angle and surface normal to determine how much the normal faces the camera (using the dot product). The values (0..1) are then remapped using a gradient to give the signature x-ray look I.e. brighter if the normals are at more oblique angles facing away from the camera, less bright/transparent if they are facing towards the camera. You need to set the shader Blend Mode to Additive to get this to work.

    This is often called an Incidence, Facing Ratio or Fresnel shader in other packages and has loads of applications (including Toon shaders etc..).

    Try playing around with the gradient to get different effects...

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,362

    @andymac3d nice shader, I love incidence shading too. It's great for adding subtle rim lighting effects.

  • Posts: 1,708

    @andymac3d - loaded your x-ray shader in, still have a solid 3D rhino. How do you set the shader blend mode?

  • Posts: 398
    Thanks @Simeon

    @Bri_G - on the Shader there’s an icon on the top right (like control panel sliders) - click on that and the Blend Modes are there ;-)
  • Posts: 1,708
    @andymac3d - thanks for that, still finding my way around.
  • Posts: 1,708
    @andymac3d - found it, moded it an reproduced it. Thank you.

    @Simeon is there any reason why we can't use the almost universal sign for menu in three parallel horizontal lines rather than two opposing horizontal arrows?
  • dave1707dave1707 Mod
    Posts: 8,387

    @john When selecting something that has multiple options, could you change the color of the current selection. For instance, if you select Blend Mode of the Surface list, there are 4 options, disabled, normal, additive, and multiply. There isn’t any way to tell which option is currently selected. It would be nice if the current selection was a different color from the rest.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,362

    @dave1707 any UI you see in white (looks like plain iOS style) is placeholder UI until we can develop a proper one. @John just develops features faster than I can design UI

  • JohnJohn Admin Mod
    Posts: 616

    Sorry about that :disappointed:

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,708

    @John - trying to add a number node to a Shade by typing text into the create dialogue box. As you type the text the options list is reduced, eventually listing only number. Touch on the number text and a node is created - an Fwidth node. This keeps happening to me so now using the library.

    Also when I have deleted the Fwidth node and pull out the lib menu the Fwidth dialogue box is there. This disappears when the menu is closed and re-opened to reveal the lib menu.

  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,362

    @Bri_G that is so weird — it inserts a number node for me. Does it do the same if you hit the return key rather than tapping the option?

  • Posts: 1,708

    @Simeon - tried again this morning in both portrait and landscape modes. Typed in num into the dialogue box and touched the text Number - I found I got mainly Numbernodes, but if you touched near the top of the text or near the bottom of the text I got a Fwidth or a Mic. Seems to select from the list on positional selection. My fingers are quite big and it may also be influenced by the angle that you are holding the iPad. It would suggest that the selection area to touch is bigger than the dialogue text box area displaying the options.

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,708

    @Simeon - just tried typing dir into the text area on the node selector and it gave me only the text ViewDir option above it. Pressing on that near the top gave me an Fwidth node and near the bottom a WorldNormal.

  • Posts: 1,708
    @Simeon - I don't know if it's an iOS feature or local programming but it looks like, even when you get down to one text selection option, the selection is actually made on a positional input. The effect is probably worse in landscape due to relative size/shape of option boxes. With Shade landscape is probably the favoured orientation.
  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,362

    @Bri_G Thank you that kind of solves the mystery, looks like it's choosing invisible options!

  • Posts: 1,708
    @Simeon - have you been able to duplicate it?
  • SimeonSimeon Admin Mod
    Posts: 5,362

    @Bri_G yes can reproduce, it's on the list to fix

  • Posts: 489

    I've finally downloaded this (iPad issues ...).

    And .... instantly got stuck in the documentation. I clicked through to learn about "Surface Nodes" and couldn't get back again. Fairly minor, I know, but navigation in the help would be useful.

  • JohnJohn Admin Mod
    Posts: 616

    @LoopSpace The documentation is currently getting a major overhaul and will be much improved in the next release.

    For now we have some basic tutorials here:
    https://twolivesleft.com/shade/tutorials/

  • Posts: 1,708
    @John - thanks for the tutorial, explained a lot for me.

    John's pretty busy now so - is there anyone out there who can explain the three additional textures used in John's new example. I think I have a reasonable idea what they are for but need to understand how they are applied and interact with the parent texture?

    Also how, and with what tools, are they made?
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,708

    For those of you like me, picking up the detail of Shaders has been difficult. I have a reasonable overview but coding it is a little out of my depth at the moment. Enter Shade.

    Here are a few links, which you could all find, that may help in specific shader related areas. Good reading:

    Background info around script programming and shader parts:

    Khronos OpenGL Shader Introduction Vertex Shader
    Khronos OpenGL Shader Outline Fragment Shader
    Wikipedia Shader Article Shader Article
    Wikipedia TextureMapping Article Texture Mapping
    Wikipedia Normal Mapping Article Normal Mapping
    Wikipedia Bump Mapping Article Bump Mapping
    Wikipedia Shadows Article Shadows
    Wikipedia Lighting Article Lighting

  • AnatolyAnatoly Mod
    edited August 2018 Posts: 889

    Error after random tests

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,708

    @John, @Simeon - congratulations, luv the new menu, luv the lib icons, luv the new nodes and luv what you’ve done with the reference. Your adding new features faster than I’m learning to use the old ones. Luverly !!!!

    p.s. Pratchett humour and comical comments/emojis - great, are they going to be in the final release or just for the beta crowd?

  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,708

    @John, @Simeon - WOW, just tried out the new AR output setting for the scene. Small planet floating around in our living room. Excellent !!!

  • dave1707dave1707 Mod
    Posts: 8,387

    @Bri_G What settings/nodes did you use to get that. I can’t get anything to show in my AR scene.

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